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Hang Cleans vs. Weighted Jumps

Trap_Bar_Jumps

Q: Hey Joe D I really enjoyed your recent blog post about developing knockout power! The weighted jumping exercises definitely make sense..i'm looking forward to incorporating some of your suggestions into my workouts!! My question is where do hang cleans and power cleans fit into the mix? I'm assuming your rationale behind the weighted jumps is the explosive hip extension(triple extension) involved, correct?? Well aren't cleans the ultimate hip extension power movement? I know you train tons of football players so surely you incorporate them somewhere in your training programs? Any input would be golden coach..THANKS!

Brandon - Baltimore, Maryland

 

A: Brandon,

I've discussed my stance regarding hang cleans and power cleans many times before on this website. Simply put, I don't feel they are necessary for any class of athlete (with the exception of Olympic weightlifters).

I don't want to bore my readers by re-writing what's already been written, so I suggest you check out the following links:

Olympic lifting debate (again)!

Can you get "explosive" without doing power cleans?

10 Training Myths Exposed! (See "Myth #4)

If you search my website, you'll will find even more posts regarding this topic.

 

Since many years have past since some of these posts were written, I've decided to provide my readers with a new perspective on this age-old topic. Instead of simply listing the "why's" of why I don't have my athletes perform cleans; I thought that providing some videos would paint a clearer picture.

Let's remember that every coach that advocates hang cleans or power cleans does so because of the "triple extension" involved with these movements. The problem is, you will be hard-pressed to ever find an athlete (besides an Olympic weightlifter) getting a "triple extension" benefit! I did my best to find a good video representation of someone who performs cleans like the majority of athletes out there. (I wanted to find a non Olympic-weightlifting athlete performing the lift. I did not go out of my way to find a really "bad" video, either.) The below video shows what most high school and college athletes look like when they perform cleans. (NOTE: I don't know the person in this video; and I'm not trying to offend him in any way. The sole purpose of this video is to help people 'see' my point.)

One of the reasons I feel coaches believe that cleans are making their athletes "explosive" is because they focus their attention on the barbell, instead of focussing on the athlete during the lift! The barbell bounces around and the weights make loud noises, so everyone thinks something "explosive" is happening! Unfortunately, the only things usually "exploding" are the athlete's lumbar spine, patella tendons and the tendons and ligaments that support their wrists!

I suggest watching the below video three times. The first time focus solely on the athlete's hips. The second time focus on the athlete's knees. And the third time focus on the athlete's ankles. Do NOT watch the barbell!

If you're like me, you probably didn't see any "explosive" hip, knee or ankle extension! Unfortunately, the technique utilized in the above video represents about 98% of what I've seen in my 13+ years in this profession.

The final "clincher" for me this past year was when THREE separate Division 1 college football players entered my program with surgically-repaired wrists due to the "catch" phase of this exercise! All three of these athletes were forced to do hang cleans during their college careers and now their training will be negatively effected forever. FYI, two of the three athletes are now in the NFL and have to deal with an injury that was 100% preventable if their coaches would have provided them with safer, more logical, exercise choices! Speaking of which...

Check out three examples of some of our favorite weighted jump variations. Again, I suggest watching each video 3x. Check out the hips, knees and ankles of each athlete while viewing the videos. Notice the increased range of motion and much more "explosive" extension (compared to the hang clean) at each of the three joints discussed.

This first video shows a bunch of highlights from a workout performed by UFC fighter, Dan Hardy, training at our gym last week. But I've posted it specifically for everyone to check out the first exercise shown - Trap Bar Jumps.

Single leg squat jumps

Seated box jump w/ weight vest


The beauty of these three exercises, as well as all of the weighted jump variations we have our athletes perform, is that you can't perform them without 'triple extension'! All of these exercises are basically fool-proof! I'm also proud to say that I've never seen an athlete get injured while performing any of our favorite jump variations. I've sure as hell never seen torn wrist ligaments or a ruptured disk; two injuries that are all too common during the "catch" phase of hang cleans and power cleans. I'll take an occasional scraped shin every now and then while box jumping any day of the week!

 

To conclude; I am in no way "bashing" hang cleans or any of the Olympic lifts. As I've stated time and time again, there are no "bad" exercises, just bad technique! I'm sure many athletes enjoy performing hang cleans and have benefitted from them. If you like doing them, go right ahead; it sure as hell doesn't matter to me! But, in my profession, I have to look at the risk:reward ratio of every exercise I prescribe. My job depends on it. There's just too much money at stake for many of my athletes to risk their health in an environment that's supposed to help prevent injury! Their sports are dangerous enough; I sure as hell don't need them getting injured in my weightroom!

And I can tell you - without question - weighted jump variations will make you just as "explosive", if not more, than any Olympic lift variation...without the risk! To me, it's a no-brainer!

-Joe D.

What did you think of this blog post? Gimme your feedback below by leaving a comment.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

36 Comments

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  1. Anthony makes this comment

    Monday, 12 April 2010

    From a rehab point of view I have seen two different football players get Spondylothesis and Spondylosis vertebral fractures from power cleaning. Risk greater than reward I would say. Great post

  2. HS Coach makes this comment

    Monday, 05 April 2010

    The explosive component of a clean is over at the high pull. The catch is all technique, and is only beneficial if your goal is be better at the power-clean itself. The goal for athletes is developing maximum explosion, not a maximum clean. Only olympic weightlifters want a maximum clean and catch. I've never seen an injury on the pull component of the clean - only the catch.

  3. Mike makes this comment

    Thursday, 01 April 2010

    If you go to a high school game, you'll see kids who have bad form in blocking, shooting, hitting, etc. Kids have enough on their plate trying to learn proper form for the actions of the sport they play, they don't need lifting to make their lives more complicated.

  4. AC makes this comment

    Wednesday, 31 March 2010

    Howard, I think part of what DeFranco was saying is that S&C coaches don't really get a chance to ensure everyone has good form. I wonder if there are videos of HS/college athletes doing lifts with good form? (I'm honestly curious, I'm not trying to "challenge" you/be an ass.)

  5. Howard Gray makes this comment

    Wednesday, 31 March 2010

    This is a good discussion - however I feel that is it unfair to post a video of someone that obviously DOES NOT know how to perform the hang clean correctly or safely. This as a representation of olympic lifting is not right. As with everything - bad coaching is bad coaching and will get athletes hurt, no matter what the exercise. If a coach cannot correctly teach the lifts then certainly there are better options for developing power in his/her athletes.

  6. Dan makes this comment

    Tuesday, 30 March 2010

    Damn good argument anyway Joe! Great site

  7. Dan makes this comment

    Tuesday, 30 March 2010

    The power that your guys are poducing is incredible and when looking at power output (Force x Dist/Time) a 350 pound jumpsquat will exceed the power output of a 250 pound power clean if the distance the load is moved is similar and if the speed is the same or slightly less. I would normally believe a well trained power clean will produce a greater distance and at faster speed, however some of your videos make me think otherwise... that is a study I would love to see take place. In my opinion, both weighted jump squats and the o-lifts are worth learning and teaching but only by suitably qualified and experienced coaches, and neither method in my opinion is better than the other at increasing power output. They are both fantastic methods and I would hate to neglect either.

  8. Dan makes this comment

    Tuesday, 30 March 2010

    The benefits of o-lifting do not just finish with triple exension - and you are right, your methods are perhaps as good, if not better at improving this movement - however from an injury standpoint, the mastery of these lifts lead to huge improvements in connective tissue integrity - especially that of the shoulder joint - and they involve more muscle mass and require more neuromuscular coordination to perform. Importantly they also teach the body to recieve a load in the standing position, a skill very specific to collision sports such as american football. In fact split cleans are a staple amongst most professional rugby and rugby league clubs in australia and new zealand due to the fact that they so closely mimic the recieving positions for front-on collisions in these sports.

  9. Dan makes this comment

    Tuesday, 30 March 2010

    Joe, I agree with what a lot of what you are saying and I definitely agree that the o-lift variations are performed incorrectly by the majority of young athletes, but mainly by athletes who have not had proficient coaching. In fact I'd say most athletes that I have come across who are bad at these lifts display bad technique at just about every lift in the gym. The o-lifts need to be taught correctly and progressed slowly throughout an athletes development and a good quality coach can do this whilst also incorporating other methods of power development such as those which you use. Proper progression is the key - RDL's to power shrugs to jump shrugs to high pulls to power cleans - with each lift to be mastered technically first before progressing to the next. This will minimise injury (weightlifting has one of the lowest rates of injury in all sports) and every progression can still be used to generate huge improvements in power, even if they are not used in conjunction with other methods.

  10. Jeremy makes this comment

    Monday, 29 March 2010

    I was wondering do you use the deadlift jumps as the Dynamic exercise or as a assistance exercise? And how much weight would use? Heavy? Light?

  11. Jeff makes this comment

    Sunday, 28 March 2010

    Have you tried heavy double kettlebell snatches or high pulls? I have replaced the olympic lift variations with these. If they are not pulled high enough to catch them in the snatch position it is pretty easy to just catch them in the rack position and I dont find the catch to be especially jarring on the wrists as compared to barbell cleans.

  12. Joe D. makes this comment

    Sunday, 28 March 2010

    Dan, The cleans that are performed as part of our barbell complexes in our Badass Program are definitely the exception to the rule. Barbell Complexes are used for metabolic conditioning, not strength/power. The weights used for the complexes are MUCH lighter, and "perfect technique" is less important when they are used in this manner. In other words, during a BB complex, we're not as concerned about 'triple extension', etc, we're merely looking to raise the heartrate, burn a shitload of calories, etc., etc.

  13. John makes this comment

    Sunday, 28 March 2010

    What a pathetic and ignorant comment from Alex. I suppose when your successfull you always have some one to hate on you. Tool of the highest order!

  14. Alex makes this comment

    Saturday, 27 March 2010

    Unfortunately the weighted jumping couldn't help Dan H win ;P

  15. Dave makes this comment

    Saturday, 27 March 2010

    A question to Joe, at what level do you start having your athletes start WEIGHTED jumps? i know that new lifters can, and should, get away without any jumps, just focus on getting stronger. once they achieved some strength they should start incorporating some jumps, but when is the time to start doing weighted jumps? or do you just mix both unweighted and weighted jumps into your DE day? thanks, Dave

  16. Dan makes this comment

    Saturday, 27 March 2010

    Joe - Why do you incorporate hang cleans in your washed up meathead routine with the barbell complex finisher?

  17. Ray Fontanetto makes this comment

    Friday, 26 March 2010

    And you're mentioning that landing on a box is different than the ground is duly noted....................it's silly of me to have overlooked that given that I often like plyo push-ups onto boxes expressly because of the reduced force upon impact/landing. In my hast to question the back position, I overlooked a critical element like that.......................but that's why they pay you the big bucks and why you turn out fantastic athletes. Thanks for giving me a jolt in the old noggin'..................and next time I should think a bit longer before rushing to post my thoughts, hah, hah. All the best to you and your athletes!

  18. Ray Fontanetto makes this comment

    Friday, 26 March 2010

    Joe, The great irony is that if an athlete were to perform a hang clean under your supervision, it would probably end up being with a form and weight that maximized its value....................but once again I defer back to your point about weighted jumps providing all you could want without adding the extra shoulder, wrist, and elbow stress that a lot of big time athletes (especially in a rough and tumble game like football) just don't need to endure when the goal is becoming more explosive.

  19. Joe D. makes this comment

    Friday, 26 March 2010

    RAY: You are correct in that the kid in the video would get more out of the exercise if he "checked his ego" and went lighter...but THAT'S one of the problems I have with cleans...I RARELY see the proper weights being prescribed with that exercise! And in my experience, I have found the "deep squat" landing position when box jumping to actually be beneficial & extremely safe. Remember he's landing on a box, which is MUCH different than jumping up and coming all the way back down and landing on the floor. Now if he were squatting 500lbs. and that's what he looked like in the bottom position, that would be a different story! And don't worry, I don't think you're being an "internet expert"...your comments were well-thought-out. I appreciate your feedback..

  20. Joe D. makes this comment

    Friday, 26 March 2010

    Thanks for all the comments...reader feedback is always much-appreciated! I'll try & quickly answer some questions. MATT: Dan Hardy vertical jumped between 32 & 32.5inches15X in a row during the workout shown. Very impressive to maintain that power! BEN: Thank you for providing that screen shot. YES, I would consider that picture "triple extension", but there is a "catch". Take a screen shot of his starting position and it's not much different! In other words, the range of motion was MINIMAL (at best) compared to my jumping exercises. (The kid muscled the weight up almost entirely with his upper body.) SEAN: The "speed latter" is merely for some warm-up drills & "quick-foot/reaction" plyos we've incorporated into the program...

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